This city is afraid of me. I have seen its true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!'... and Gon's Balls will whisper 'First... comes... rock!' Hah!  Made you stare at Naruto's Marshmallow!  Pushing the logo off-center to drive TheOcean insane.  
 
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  #31  
Old 05-29-2008
Someguy Someguy is offline
 
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And what if they have a disease that will cause them to die when they give birth?
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  #32  
Old 05-29-2008
TheRealFolkBlues TheRealFolkBlues is offline
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"And what if they have a disease that will cause them to die when they give birth?"

The only time abortion is tolerable is if the mother's life is in danger.
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  #33  
Old 05-29-2008
Someguy Someguy is offline
 
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Also, what if the person is raped, and they do not want to go through the nine months of Hell?
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  #34  
Old 05-29-2008
TheRealFolkBlues TheRealFolkBlues is offline
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Punish the rapist, not the child.
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  #35  
Old 05-29-2008
Someguy Someguy is offline
 
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That is avoiding the question.

Edit: The question was, what if she does not WANT TO GO THROUGH THE NINE MONTH HELL?
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  #36  
Old 05-29-2008
TheRealFolkBlues TheRealFolkBlues is offline
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I consider babysitting hell, so does that mean I can kill the kid?
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  #37  
Old 05-29-2008
Someguy Someguy is offline
 
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Irrelevant.
What I said meant what if the person does not want to go through labor? Do they have to anyways?
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  #38  
Old 05-29-2008
TheRealFolkBlues TheRealFolkBlues is offline
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Life, liberty, property.
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  #39  
Old 05-29-2008
Someguy Someguy is offline
 
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What?
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  #40  
Old 05-29-2008
TheRealFolkBlues TheRealFolkBlues is offline
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John Locke.
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  #41  
Old 05-29-2008
Someguy Someguy is offline
 
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I asked you a question, which was:
Quote:
What I said meant what if the person does not want to go through labor? Do they have to anyways?
What is your answer?
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  #42  
Old 05-29-2008
TheRealFolkBlues TheRealFolkBlues is offline
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What if I don't want to follow the law?

Ever figured I'm answering your question philosophically?
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  #43  
Old 05-29-2008
Someguy Someguy is offline
 
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I'd like a direct answer.
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  #44  
Old 05-29-2008
TheRealFolkBlues TheRealFolkBlues is offline
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I'd like you to stop being a lazy ass.
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  #45  
Old 05-29-2008
Someguy Someguy is offline
 
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Excuse me?

Edit: Just answer the question.
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  #46  
Old 05-29-2008
TheRealFolkBlues TheRealFolkBlues is offline
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I already did. You just haven't seeked it.
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  #47  
Old 05-29-2008
Someguy Someguy is offline
 
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...
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  #48  
Old 05-29-2008
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MrsSallyBakura MrsSallyBakura is offline
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*sigh*
Ok. Obviously the question is getting nowhere to being answered. Let me try.

First I'd like to say that abortion because of rape is rare. I heard one statistic say about 2%. I'm not sure how true that is, but I'm pretty sure it's not as common as getting an abortion because the girl had sex, didn't use contraception or it didn't work or she screwed up with finding out when her period was, something like that.

Now if a rape/pregnancy were to happen, having an abortion isn't going to make her situation better. Sure she won't have to go through "nine months of Hell," but she's probably already feeling an extraordinary amount of self-loathing, and if she feels that her child is a human, whether before or after the abortion, knowing that she destroyed the innocent life that was the effect of her rape rather than the cause, will just make her feel worse. If there is absolutely 100% no doubt in her mind that the fetus is not a human, then maybe she won't feel that same repercussion, but many women do even when they haven't been raped, which is why you may hear a lot of women telling stories about how they regret their abortions. There are women who don't regret it, or at least say they don't, but there are those who do and there are women who years and years and years later have dreams about what their child would be like, or hearing footsteps in the middle of the night. It's a strange psychological response to an abortion, and mixing that with the psychological effects of rape... unimaginable. Some groups deny post-abortion syndrome, others claim these groups to be biased toward abortion, so it's a touchy subject, but I've heard enough from the word-of-mouth from those who knew people going through some of these symptoms, so that's the evidence I'm using.

Now, going through a pregnancy, knowing that the father of this child is a horrifying criminal who personally violated her, isn't easy either, obviously. But again, why should the child be punished for the crime its father committed? Even if the father is caught and thrown in jail, it will probably only make the woman feel a little bit better but not enough to diminish her self-loathing, so she has the abortion to take away some of the burden. In that case you'd be punishing both parties, one of which is completely innocent. You could argue, "She shouldn't be punished with a pregnancy." She shouldn't have been punished with rape either, she is just a victim who did nothing to deserve it, and unfortunately the pregnancy is only the effect of the rape. The child is in the same position she is in if it were to be aborted. You can't make a fair choice no matter what.
Besides, the child won't turn into his/her father. The child could become an amazing and successful person. It is an opportunity to show others that even though you are a victim of evil, good can come out of it.
And you can always put a child up for adoption. No, adoption isn't nearly as easy as it sounds, I get that, but it's possible to find a barren couple out there who can't really afford a trip to China and raise a baby who would love to finally have one.

Nothing is easy or simple when dealing with a pregnancy because of rape. But abortion isn't the only option.

That's my 2 cents. A very lengthy 2 cents, but take it or leave it as you wish.
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  #49  
Old 05-30-2008
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Oh THANK YOU Mrs SallyBakura! Someone with actual THOUGHT put into their post!
Anyways...
That is a very good point, and though I disagree with the opinion, I respect YOUR view of it because you have logic to support it. On the other hand, you also have to look at WHY people who get abortions in the first place, like living conditions, money issues, location, safety for the what would be child, the child is unwanted, etc.
Also, there are times when poor planning gets in the way, or times when the child is not wanted, but the parent/parents are too stupid to realize that they are not right to raise a child. In these cases, abortion is right in my opinion.
I may sound like a cold, heartless person...but my friend had to get an abortion for already stated reasons, and they are glad they did it because they know if the child had actually developed, it would have had Hell for a life, because they came from an orphanage themselves, and they know how terrible life can be in one, because as stated, do to medical conditions, she would have died giving birth, and the child would have gone to an orphanage.
Yes, there are cases where the mother regrets it, but the same cases happen to many who give up their child to adoption. Because of which, I would not use this as part of an argument.

EDIT: Also, on an unrelated note, if the child-to-be in question has not yet developed a brain or brain cells, does it still have an opinion?
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  #50  
Old 05-30-2008
Brandi Brandi is offline
 
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Abortion should not be used a method of birth control. In very specific cases in which the mothers life is in danger upon giving birth, and perhaps if the mother was raped and has a mental illness or a disease that would pass on to the the child and give them a horrible life, then it might be considerable in terms of morality. I'm not completely sure how a birth would go if a mother was raped by a family member. There are possibilities of the baby having issues after being born, but I don' t know how probable that is.
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  #51  
Old 05-31-2008
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Quote:
On the other hand, you also have to look at WHY people who get abortions in the first place, like living conditions, money issues, location, safety for the what would be child, the child is unwanted, etc.
Also, there are times when poor planning gets in the way, or times when the child is not wanted, but the parent/parents are too stupid to realize that they are not right to raise a child. In these cases, abortion is right in my opinion.
Another reason to support adoption. Like I said it's not as easy as some pro-life activists make it out to be, but like I also said, there are barren couples out there who can't afford a trip to China but would love to raise a child of their own. If the parents weren't responsible enough to not have sex or use birth control, I don't think the baby should pay for their actions.
Quote:
EDIT: Also, on an unrelated note, if the child-to-be in question has not yet developed a brain or brain cells, does it still have an opinion?
Good question.
Instead of directly answering it, let me show you this: http://www.webmd.com/solutions/sc/pr...-week/weeks5-8
People underestimate how quickly the embryo's organs develop.
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  #52  
Old 05-31-2008
Someguy Someguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Good question.
Instead of directly answering it, let me show you this: http://www.webmd.com/solutions/sc/pregnancy-week-by-week/weeks5-8
People underestimate how quickly the embryo's organs develop.
Ok? That still does not answer my question, I asked if it still had an opinion.
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  #53  
Old 06-01-2008
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MrsSallyBakura MrsSallyBakura is offline
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I already said that it wasn't going to answer your question, but if it pleases you then I will.
I have no idea it it has an opinion. I don't even know if babies who are 2 months old have an opinion. How can we know if it has an opinion if we can't really remember that far back in our lives? A few people can randomly remember something from when they were only a few months old, but those are based purely on sight, therefore they don't know anything outside their own needs. How can they have an opinion about something if the issue has never been presented to them?
That can go for any human being who has never been exposed to the outside world all that much.
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  #54  
Old 06-01-2008
Sophie Sophie is offline
 
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OBJECTION!!!

A fetus is not a child.
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  #55  
Old 06-01-2008
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Says who?
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  #56  
Old 06-01-2008
Sophie Sophie is offline
 
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Says science.
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  #57  
Old 06-01-2008
TheFall TheFall is offline
 
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Science says that it is a developing human.

Since I am a Christian, I'm mainly against abortion. Abortion because you didn't play it safe, didn't wait for marriage, well that's kind of your fault. Take responsibility for your actions. However, the subject I'm iffy about is if the birth of the child will kill the mother. THis is the only part of abortion that makes it fine, for me. The other abortion is murder whilst the latter is self-defense.
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  #58  
Old 06-01-2008
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MrsSallyBakura MrsSallyBakura is offline
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Quote:
Science says that it is a developing human.
This.
http://www.pregnancy.org/pregnancy/f...velopment1.php
It may not say, "This is a human being" directly, but if you seriously take a look at all this, I don't see how it can't be. The vast majority of time in the uterus is growth. The heart has its first beat by the 5th week and sex is determined immediately.
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  #59  
Old 06-01-2008
TheFall TheFall is offline
 
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Yes, a person with sanity! If it's not human, what is it? A turtle? No! A developing human child must be placed under a species if you don't want it to be a human. I call abortion "legalized murder". I think I got that from my Christian history book. Go figure.
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  #60  
Old 06-02-2008
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Quote:
If it's not human, what is it?
A fetus is nothing more than a potiential human being. Until it can exist outside the womb and develops consciousness, it is little more than a mass of organs.
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